Gisela & Joe Noci
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Gisela & Joe Noci's Discussions

Autopilot System for full Inertial Guidance and platform stabilization -The NamPilot System-

Started this discussion. Last reply by Matthew Thomas Jan 4. 3 Replies

This Autopilot system is the system fitted to the various UAV's designed and flown in Namibia for nature conservation and to support the anti-poaching programs there.Have a look at the postings under…Continue

Auto-landing and Auto-launch of our Carbon Fibre Gentle Flyer UAV's

Started Nov 22, 2011 0 Replies

This discussion gives a look at some of the composite UAV's we have developed. Some have been pure demonstrators, such as PiPistrello, and the second a prototype precurser to the final Autonomous…Continue

 

Gisela & Joe Noci's Page

Latest Activity

Mick commented on Gisela & Joe Noci's blog post A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.
"Nice design.  Can you tell me what you're using to control the ESC's and pitch/tilt servos?  Are they off-the-shelf components or something you have custom-designed? Mick"
Feb 10
Patric Millar commented on Gisela & Joe Noci's blog post A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.
"Hi Joe Thanks for the response.  The answer is yes.  I've been discussing with Michael the supply of the collars, VHF and UHF download system around the 50g mark.  We already have an automatic UHF download system which can run as…"
Feb 5
Gisela & Joe Noci commented on Gisela & Joe Noci's blog post A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.
"Hello Patric, See you amd Michael are in cahoots...  Are you the fellow that Michael mentioned might fly the quad for him with a tag tracker on board?    Patric, one of the planes we used was the Hornbill one, which you have seen on…"
Feb 5
Patric Millar commented on Gisela & Joe Noci's blog post A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.
"Hi Joe.  Looks like a very interesting project.  As someone with a foot in both the UAV/Quadcopter camp and the tracking wildlife camp I'm waiting for more updates.  I'm also interested in the mechanics of your tracking…"
Feb 5
Helitrasher commented on Gisela & Joe Noci's blog post A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.
"Wieght is also a problem, but the day when a multi rotor can do a Tick Tock or a inverted backflip pyro roll are only in the hands of the variable pitch machines."
Jan 11
Helitrasher commented on Gisela & Joe Noci's blog post A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.
"I think noise and mechanical complexity are the only issues with the Heli´s, plus a bit of fear factor !. And I would love to see a auto autorotation, I know from experience that it takes years to master. "
Jan 11
Tomas Soedergren commented on Gisela & Joe Noci's blog post A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.
"Inventive spirit! Looking forward to the demo videos :)"
Jan 10

Developer
R_Lefebvre commented on Gisela & Joe Noci's blog post A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.
"I always like innovation and that's some pretty good work.  But I gotta ask:  At this level of complexity, why not just a traditional helicopter?  You have just as many servos, 4 motors which could fail, any one of which can…"
Jan 10
Aerhead commented on Gisela & Joe Noci's blog post A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.
"Gisela & Joe   This is a very innovative approach to a VPP quad. It is really a challenge for a first quad.  The MIT design is very successful with much the same setup. MIT’s teem that put it together have many resources that are…"
Jan 10
Helitrasher commented on Gisela & Joe Noci's blog post A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.
"Another pic "
Jan 6
Helitrasher commented on Gisela & Joe Noci's blog post A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.
"I would suggest same cross stiffeners on those boom supports to stop the vibration caused by the flexing boom to travel back to the center hub. I have lost a couple of heli´s due to this vibration and the APM definatly wont enjoy it ! BTW…"
Jan 6

Moderator
Ellison Chan commented on Gisela & Joe Noci's blog post A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.
"Santa helps those, who help themselves.  Maybe you can use your grinder to build the CNC machine."
Jan 6
Helitrasher commented on Gisela & Joe Noci's blog post A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.
"Very, very nice and very well done. I asked Santa for a CNC machine, but I only got a grinder !"
Jan 6
Eraser commented on Gisela & Joe Noci's blog post A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.
"Great job so far!"
Jan 6

Moderator
Ellison Chan commented on Gisela & Joe Noci's blog post A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.
"Joe, decreasing the wire diameter will increase the number of windings per stator and result in more torque.  You can go the route of increasing the number of stators and diameter of the motor too, but then the additional weight is a problem.…"
Jan 6
Bernard Michaud commented on Gisela & Joe Noci's blog post A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.
"Just love what you have put together. Like the angle off your presentation. Looking forward to see it in the air ...   "
Jan 6

Profile Information

About Me:
Software/Hardware Engineer, Aircraft designer.
Tell us a bit about your UAV interest
UAVs in civilian aerial photography and Anti-Poaching applications
Hometown:
Swakopmund

Gisela & Joe Noci's Blog

A large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.

Posted on January 5, 2012 at 7:30am 37 Comments

                                

 

                               A  large scale Variable Pitch Tilt Quadrotor implementation.

  …

Continue

Inexpensive UAV's used in nature conservation and Photography missions in Namibia.

Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:05pm 28 Comments

 

 

I would like to show what we have done here in Namibia in developing Inexpensive UAV systems which we are beginning to actively use in conjunction with Namibian Ministry of Environment and Tourism, tasked with wildlife conservation in Namibia, and also for photography missions for the local quarry mines and Salt mines.

 …

Continue

Comment Wall (17 comments)

At 4:56pm on September 22, 2010,
Developer
William Premerlani
said…
Hi Gisela,

We have made good progress with wind estimation. It is now incorporated into MatrixPilot. The theory is described here.

With respect to the cross-coupling of the acceleration into pitch estimation during a launch, we have not addressed the issue yet, it is not high up on my list. Paul Bizard did a lot of simulations, and found values of the PI feedback gains that were a reasonable compromise between rejection of gyro drift, and rejection of acceleration on takeoff. I think the time constant is between 10 and 15 seconds.

Beyond that, there are many things you could do, including turning off the PI roll-pitch compensation during high acceleration. There are many people who are using this approach.

Finally, you might want to take a look at the uavdevboard website, or join its discussion group.

Best regards,
Bill
At 5:05pm on September 22, 2010,
Developer
William Premerlani
said…
Hi Gisela,

One more thing I forgot to mention, I don't recall whether it is mentioned in the "DCM document":

You can approximately adjust the accelerometer value along the axis parallel to the fuselage by computing the forward acceleration from the stream of GPS velocity reports. Although this does not help much during high acceleration launches, it will do a reasonable job once the plane is in flight, because the errors caused by the GPS dynamic behavior as the plane accelerates and decelerates tend to cancel each other out.

Best regards,
Bill
At 12:03pm on October 2, 2010,
Developer
William Premerlani
said…
Hi Gisela,
You asked:
"(1) ...I assume that in a normal body axis convention (as in ArdIMU as opposed tp MatrixPilot ie X is +ve forward - this would be the fisrt column - rxx, rxy, rxz)?"

You are correct.

"(2) You mention that the plane must change attitude for this to work - and then refer to the denominator of Equ6. Now Equ6 computes the estimated airspeed, and if the denominator is zero, this cannot be computed. Is this the reason behind your statement?"

Yes.

" If in fact I have a measure of airspeed - via a pitot - and hence do not need to compute equ6 - can I then be computing regardless of the planes change of (or lacl of chnage) in attitude?"

Yes.

Best regards,
Bill
At 3:25am on October 3, 2010, Gisela & Joe Noci said…
Hi Bill
Thanks for the answers above. I would like to take these questions further, relating specifically to the use of GPS CourseOverGround to determine Yaw Gyro Bias

In the DCM theory document on page 21, you comment that the assumptions made when using GPS CourseOverGround (as opposed to actual Aircraft Heading – the direction in which the aircraft is actually pointing) are violated in the case of strong wind. This I understand.

However, if I am prepared to accept that the value of “yaw” as will be computed from the resulting DCM matrix is in fact a “course over ground” as opposed to an “aircraft heading”, and that the prime purpose here is as accurate a determination of yaw gyro bias as possible, that this is achieved irrespective of wind?

(The advantage of this would be that we would not be contaminating the errorYaw vector with what can only be a best estimate of wind. As this vector gets combined with the errorRollPitch vector to compute the final correction vectors, I assume any inaccuracies in the errorYaw vector will affect all gyro bias values – not only yaw).

Regards,
Gisela
At 4:01pm on October 9, 2010,
Developer
William Premerlani
said…
Hi Gisela,

Regarding the effect of the wind on yaw gyro drift correction, the wind is relevant only during turns.

If your flight plan involves mostly long straight paths with turns only once in a while, you do not need to account for the wind if you use GPS course over ground to compensate for yaw drift. The controls will rotate the plane the exact amount needed for the wind.

However, unless you somehow measure and account for the wind in the navigation calculations, there will be a temporary yaw error after a turn, that will gradually dissipate.

An example might help. Suppose the plane is flying along at 10 meters/second airspeed with a cross wind of 5 meters/second. It will be crabbing into the wind with an angle of 30 degrees. Then suppose the navigation controls decide to make a 90 degree turn into the wind. In other words, navigation commands a change in course over ground of 90 degrees. It will rotate the plane by 90 degrees. However, all that is needed to turn directly into the wind and to change the course over ground by 90 degrees, is a 60 degree turn measured by the IMU, so with a 90 degree turn, the plane will wind up flying with a 30 degree error in course over ground. That will show up in the GPS course over ground, and the drift compensation algorithm will respond to it, but it will take 10 or 20 seconds to do so. During those 10 or 20 seconds, there will be a difference between the desired and actual course over ground.

So, if your flights will involve frequent turns, it is best to account for the winds in the navigation calculations. You can either estimate the winds using the method I have suggested, or you can use a magnetometer to be able to distinguish between course over ground and the direction the plane is pointing.

You can also simply ignore the wind if you are willing to tolerate temporary course errors.

Best regards,
Bill
At 4:44pm on October 10, 2010,
Developer
William Premerlani
said…
Hi Gisela,


Actually, cross coupling between the earth and body frames of references reduces the drift of the yaw gyro, without any negative effect on roll and pitch. Tests have proven out the theory of an interesting effect. Consider an extreme case, either as a thought experiment, or as a real test, to see what is going on:

1. Start up your IMU close to being level, without any GPS or magnetometer connected for yaw drift. Program it to perform roll-pitch drift compensation only. During initialization, gyros will be approximately zeroed. After some time, the accelerometers will perfectly lock the roll and pitch. Yaw will slowly drift, at a small residual rate, because there is not any yaw feedback.

2. Rotate the IMU by 90 degrees, either by rolling or pitching, so that the axis of the Z gyro is horizontal instead of vertical.

3. Wait a few minutes. During this period of time, the accelerometer information is zeroing the Z gyro! During the same period, one of the other gyros will not receive any feedback, but it will be close to be perfectly zeroed, so its drift will be low.

4. Rotate the IMU back to level. The Z gyro is now zeroed, although the yaw angle is random.

There is another effect that you might be interested in: the bottom row of the direction cosine matrix is independent of yaw, so any yaw drift does not impact it. The reason for this is that the bottom row represents the earth frame Z axis as seen in the body frame. Because the earth frame Z axis does not contain any yaw information, it appears the same in the body frame, no matter what the yaw angle is. In fact, if you are only interested in roll and pitch, you only need to compute the bottom row of the matrix, which can be computed using only the bottom row information, and all three gyro signals. The fact that the Z gyro may have some drift is irrelevant, it all works out ok.

Best regards,
Bill
At 11:47am on October 11, 2010,
Developer
William Premerlani
said…
Hi Gisela,

I think I see what you are missing, but it is going to take some thought on my part to figure out a way to explain it.

In the meantime, here is another data point for you:

There is a roll-pitch-yaw demo program available along with MatrixPilot. I use it routinely for testing purposes. I run it without any sort of yaw compensation, I set the yaw error to zero. The bottom row of the matrix perfectly tracks roll and pitch, no matter what is going on with yaw. The other elements are more or less ok, except there is a slow yaw drift.

I will see if I can think of another way to explain why things work out so well. In the meantime, here are some factors that may be involved in explaining the discrepancy, perhaps you will be able to explain it:

1. MatrixPilot and the roll-pitch-yaw demo software record the gyro offsets during power up, so once the DCM algorithm gets running, the residual drifts are rather small.

2. If the board is level, yaw drift has no impact on roll and pitch. In other words, if roll and pitch are zero and roll and pitch rate are zero, there is no way for yaw to change roll and pitch.

3. If the board is not level, there is enough information from the accelerometers to compensate for yaw drift, so there will be yaw lock.

4. If GPS is available to achieve a strong yaw lock, there may be a phase angle error in yaw, but the yaw rate error will be zero.

5. It is true that all three gyros are involved in computing the bottom row of the matrix. However, there are linear combinations of drifts that will not impact roll and pitch.

I think what may be going on in your simulations is that possibly you are not including the effect of roll-pitch compensation and/or you are introducing arbitrary yaw gyro errors?

As long as the yaw gyro error is a small offset (a few degrees per minute), everything should work out ok.

I have run out of room in this message, I will send you another later.

Best regards,
Bill
At 2:39pm on October 11, 2010,
Developer
William Premerlani
said…
Hi Gisela,
Perhaps the amount of Z gyro offset that you were using was too large. That will result in numerical errors due to neglect of second order terms, followed by an effect I call "coning" that is caused by in interaction of the second order terms with normalization, followed by a failure to achieve roll-pitch lock.
Otherwise, the theory says that yaw compensation is orthogonal to roll-pitch compensation, as long as roll-pitch lock has been achieved. Here is why:
The roll-pitch rotation error vector is computed by taking the cross product of the last row of the matrix, with the gravity vector measured by the accelerometers. Since gravity is vertical in the earth frame, the computed roll-pitch error vector is in the horizontal plane of the earth frame.
The yaw rotation error vector is computed by taking the cross product of two vectors that are both in the horizontal plane of the earth frame. The result is parallel to the earth frame vertical.
Therefore, the yaw rotation error vector and the roll-pitch rotation error vector are orthogonal in the earth frame. Therefore they are orthogonal in the body frame. Therefore, an error in the yaw compensation does not impact the accuracy of the roll-pitch compensation.
Best regards,
Bill
At 2:51pm on October 11, 2010,
Developer
William Premerlani
said…
Hi Gisela,

Another thought...in case you have not seen them, you might be interested in Robert Mahony's papers. He goes into more mathematical detail.

The point I was trying to make in my previous comment is that:

1. When the IMU is not level, the drift compensations compute rotation corrections that are applied to all three physical gyros, because each gyro receives a weighted sum of the three elements in each rotation error vector.

2. When roll-pitch lock has been achieved, the roll-pitch rotation compensation error vector is orthogonal to the yaw rotation compensation error vector, in any frame of reference. So, when the two rotation error vectors are transformed from the earth frame into the body frame and mapped onto the physical gyros, they should not interfere with each other.

I think I understand your question, which I think boils down to, "Do errors in the yaw rate gyro create errors in roll-pitch values". If that is the question, my answer is that, provided the rate errors are not so large as to break lock, the roll-pitch values should not be impacted by yaw error.

Best regards,
Bill
At 2:27pm on October 12, 2010,
Developer
William Premerlani
said…
Hi Gisela,

How much discrepancy in roll-pitch are you seeing? There are a number of known sources of small errors, including:

1. Forward acceleration.
2. Linearization of the non-linear update equation.
3. GPS filtering.
4. Side slip introduces errors in centrifugal compensation.

Are you running simulations?

Best regards,
Bill

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