Moderator Comment by Gary Mortimer on August 21, 2010 at 5:04am

I preferred the reconstruction video that I mentioned here I am amazed that this story took so long to hit here. Before you post a comment be very aware that the manned community has widely reported it and is taking a very dim view of the RC communities lack of aviation knowledge.

So guys keep this sensible please, it has ramifications not only for UAS but the RC community at large.

Comment by Nathaniel Caner on August 21, 2010 at 6:09am

I fly at a multi-use field in the mountains here in Upstate NY, it's official designation is as an unmanned grass strip. It is also a sanctioned AMA club field. During organized events, we file a NOTEM and make a request to have the field closed to full scale traffic for that day. We have to put markers on each end of the runway and notify the controller when we commence and conclude activities in the area. Most of the year RC aircraft outnumber full scale 10 to 1. That having been said no matter what the scenario, the full scale will always have the right of way. Think of it from this simple perspective, the pilots eye, your traveling 90 knots looking down at the earth below from an altitude of say 300m, that RC plane would be just a tiny spec (imagine from your position even a large plane at 300m AGL would be an indiscernible spec), add to that the fact that your not moving but hovering and suddenly your profile from the air is invisible. Then once you make the turn for your low pass or landing your forward view becomes even worse. Guys we always have to assume when wee are at an actual airfield that planes will not see us and will do all the things planes and pilots do, like make high speed low passes and landings. Whenever I'm at the field I have to assume that planes will come when I am in the air, even with a spotter it is sometimes nearly impossible to tell when a plane is low and making a fast pass of the field. I have one pilot from an airport about 20 miles from me that flies an experimental home built RV-5, he makes low high speed passes that surprise me every time. He flies in low over the trees and suddenly appears, I don't hear him coming until he's on top of the field, he never lands so I never get to speak to him and find out if he is even aware of my presence. Anyway I've had a few close calls. No matter the situation however these official airfields are there for the use of full scale aircraft, not RC planes. IMHO the official blame is going to lie with the ground controller. That said I think there is enough blame to go around. We all do things that are "by the book", but in reality you should apply a little common sense. The full scale pilot could obviously see a group of people on the runway and decided to give them a show, he came in, smoke on, and buzzed the field. Under normal circumstances this probably would have wowed the crowd, but in this case he assumed that since he couldn't see any other full scale aircraft on the runway, that it was okay to do a flyby. This is the same reason why people get killed all the time on motorcycles at intersections. People in cars merging look both ways, looking for oncoming CARS and don't see the motorcycle. It's not the riders fault.....but he has to assume the driver of the car is going to pull out suddenly and be perpared to take action. The RC pilots spotter should have given him better direction also, there would have been ample time to warn the RC pilot of the oncoming plane, as well the ground controller was in communication with the full scale and could have waved him off. The bottom line is be aware, and be prepared!

Fly Safe,

Nathaniel

Comment by Not Sure on August 21, 2010 at 6:32am

I showed this video a few days ago to a group of aviation enthusiasts comprising of RC Pilots, Manned Pilots (both private and commercial), UAV pilots and instructors.

I also turned the sound up, so on the big screen you felt like you were there. I played the video once until the point of the inicident, then stopped it after watching the reactions on people's faces. Then purposely played it again.

I asked one question - what did you hear? I purposely did not ask, who was in the wrong?


One of the more quieter members of the group answered correctly - I couldn't hear anything because the plane was too loud.


So putting things into perspective - it really didn't matter if a radio call was made or communicated as people love to infer immediate blame to the biplane pilot. There was no spotter for the RC pilot, and there was no clear communication able to be made, because you couldnt' hear anything.

The golden rule was broken. You dont' mix RC and manned aviation. All the rules of manned aviation are typically a result of someone dying from an incident. This would have been astronomically much worser if the collision had caused loss of life on either the plane or from a crowd/ground impact.

I don't believe the all the stakeholders of this incident realise the impact of how serious this situation is.

Moderator Comment by Gary Mortimer on August 21, 2010 at 6:47am

Detect Sense Avoid

Moderator Comment by Adam AKAV8R on August 21, 2010 at 6:51am

I'm not aware of all the specifics with the incident but as a general aviation pilot as well as an RC pilot, this kind of event mixing RC and full scale aircraft is a dangerous combination. There was obviously no good coordination at the busy field that day. Some guy running around with a handheld is not coordinated. If they wanted to mix full scale and rc planes together at the event then they should have desginated specific times and had only one or the other in the air at a time. Bad day for the RC guy but would have been even worse for the bi-plane and passengers. The damage to the bi-plane will determine the outcome and how it relates to RC flying. Also for Nathaniel, there is no RV-5 only 3,4,6,7,8,9 and 12.

Comment by Greg Fletcher on August 21, 2010 at 8:50am

The RC pilot was no way at fault. The only mistake he made was flying at a poorly managed aviation based charity event. I have been to many airshows with RC demonstrations. They were always separated by TIME not space. The field should have been closed to Manned aircraft during the RC demonstration. About 25 years ago I landed in the middle of an aerobatic competition with my family on board. I double checked for NOTAMS at the field because I knew there was a flying event that day. That's why we went there. The Flight Service briefer told me there were no NOTAMS that day for this field. I said are you sure and ask him to double check for me. He assured me that there were none. I flew a standard pattern and announced my flight on the normal field frequency which apparently the FAA official at the field was not monitoring. He was on the special event frequency that I didn't know of because of the botched preflight briefing. After parking the plane the FAA official approached me and started to give me a hard time, but would let it slide this time. After I informed him of my briefing he looked concerned and went for the FS office to use the phone I guess. I didn't see him again that day. I also never received an apology from the FAA
for their negligence, placing me and my family at risk.

Moderator Comment by Brian on August 21, 2010 at 9:13am

I'm not going to cast blame at either side, neither is explicitly at fault. Clearly there must have been some mismanagement during the coordination of the event. I have an observation/question to ask.

Isn't it more typical for a full scale to be flying around the area prior to doing tricks? I observe the guys in Nor Cal do that all the time. They fly to a rural part of the county, poke the area where they'll be practicing at least 15 minutes before they start any practice moves. So when we're flying RC and see them, we have plenty of time to react (not interact). At the same time, during an RC event, aren't the crowds a little close to the action as compared to a full sized event? Shouldn't the pilot of that plane have observed the closeness of the crowd and avoided the situation? Seems to me that the pilot's and event management did not practice good ORM in this situation.

Comment by Earl on August 21, 2010 at 9:46am

RC and Aircraft in the SAME live runway ? Are you crazy ! The event scheduler need to be talked to.
Earl

Moderator Comment by Chris Anderson on August 21, 2010 at 11:00am

For the record, we disapproved this video twice over the previous days before one of the moderators approved it last night. It's not UAV-related and has been discussed in countless other, more appropriate, places already. I'll leave it up because there are comments here and we don't like to delete people's words, but I'll remind the moderators that this is not the focus of this site.

Comment by Paul Marsh on August 21, 2010 at 11:15am

Good point, Chris. I'll voluntarily delete my previous comments.

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