New Project: Quadcopter - first hover, then OSD, FPV, UAV... the works...
(THIS TOPIC IS BEING DISCUSSED HERE)
I've never introduced myself so I'll take the time now (feel free to skip this paragraph). I have a business background but I am a technology enthusiast. Recently my interest about the business and strategics/social aspects of Open Source (especially Open Hardware) has really grown. In order to better understand the OS movement (and satisfy my geek alterego) I have been tinkering with Arduino, learning some programming languages, etc. And then I learned about DIY Drones....
Once upon a time I flew RC Planes (that was during 1995 and 1996, I believe). I've been wanting to restart the hobby for quite some time, but now I believe I have what it takes ($). Unfortunately I live in a city that is not very RC-plane-friendly and I don't have a park or something nearby. For that reason I've been considering a Quadcopter project (for the VTOL and stability characteristics). This project should not only satisfy my flying needs, but also teach me about electronics, programming, etc.
I am thinking about using a platform based on Arduino since I have learned some programming on it. Currently I am leaning towards the AeroQuad.
In the future (if the thing take-offs) I plan on installing video gear for FPV. Followed by that I plan on programming (or if I get lazy I'll just buy a kit) some OSD. And than I should go into the UAV territory.
I have many doubts about the project... here are some that maybe someone can help clarify:
- Is the AeroQuad the best choice for what I need now and plan on installing in the future?
- How much thrust do I need for something like this?
- Does the AeroQuad support X configuration (I've only seen + configuration), and is that a hard thing to change?
- Is a Quadcopter a good platform for UAVs?
- Can a Quadcopter develop good forward speed? I imagine it to be slower than a heli. I haven't seen any movies of people flying quad's on long distances (which is something I'd like to do).
Based on my needs I believe this will be a VERY long (and probably expensive) project. I do want to discover the best COSTxBENEFIT solutions, of course.
The "foward speed" thing is a factor that will probably take me into a next step that will be to transform the Quadcopter into a mix of Quad/V-22 Osprey/Airplane (that's why I have the question about the X configuration). Does anyone know a project like this?
Sorry about the long post, I hope someone has the patience to read it.
(THIS TOPIC IS BEING DISCUSSED HERE)
Comments are closed for this blog post
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Comment by Gian Carlo M. on July 29, 2009 at 11:16pm -
Just found someone trying to do something similar (the Osprey+Quad thing).
http://jasondorie.com/WordPress/?cat=3&paged=2
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Comment by Xander on July 29, 2009 at 11:34pm -
Welcome to an excessively complicated hobby! It's a blast!
1) Probably. AeroQuad may not be the most reliable and stable quad out there, but it is developing rapidly and is probably the most easily modified to your needs.
2) Old Man Mike has done some extensive testing of different motors. Really depends on your payload. Doesnt seem to be too hard to get one of these things in the air.
3) Pretty sure some people have it working with X. Not a huge change if it doesnt yet.
4) Yep! Though there are planes that require little or no takeoff/landing space.
5) Forward speed should be comparable to a heli. Depends on the thrust to weight ratio.
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Comment by Caleb Chamberlain on July 30, 2009 at 9:28am -
I think the quadcopter is a fantastic platform for UAVs. In my experience, when you start giving the computer control of your rotorcraft, you will crash. :-) A quadrotor is nice because it is mechanically simple; when you crash, you don't have to spend hours fixing or replacing parts.
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Comment by Roy Brewer on July 30, 2009 at 9:59am -
Aero Quad should support the X configuration. Someone on the discussion group is also trying to do the quad tilt rotor concept.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1066119 (also check the original thread)
I don't know how to compare quads to helis, but in the quad all 4 motors/rotors are providing thrust, unlike a heli. Also, I think the quad would have less drag. So a comparable quad could be faster than a heli. But that is just a guess.
Finally, quads, like helis, are expending energy to counteract gravity, so they don't typically have very long flight times, which limits their range.
I've considered a quad tilt rotor, too, but I'd like to get a regular quad going first. In any event, I believe that the X configuration is superior to the + in terms of maneuverability. So I recommend pursuing the X even if you don't go with the tilt option.
I've also seen a technical paper describe an interesting tilt wing concept. The front rotor-wings are split so as to act as ailerons in the airplane mode. The rear rotor wing acts a a single long elevator. Looks promising, and certainly cuts down on the number of servos you'd need to control!
Good luck with this project!
- Roy
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Comment by Gian Carlo M. on July 30, 2009 at 10:42am
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@Xander : thank you very much for your response!
@Caleb: I didn't quite understand what your final opinion is! lol I understood that you believe quads are unstable and an auto-pilot will probably crash it, but you also said that they are perfect for UAVs! I must have misunderstood you! :D At least it is easy to fix (and when it crashes I don't have the risk of chopping my head off!)
@Roy: You are correct. I just looked with more attention at the Aeroquad homepage and saw that it does support the X configuration. On the battery case, you are totally right, and that's another reason that I want a tilt-wing rotor. That way I can take-off vertically and then fly to the distance (using FPV or not) and have longer flight times (probably using 20% or so from the power of the 4 engines).
I think like you do. First I want to get a stable Quad.. then I'll get FPV... then UAV... then Tilt-rotor. One step at a time... it will be a fun project...
Do you believe there is alot of interest in a project like this? Maybe we can begin an open-source tilt-rotor or something. As I said, I'm trying to understand the OS movement and nothing would be nicer than to take part in one myself. What do you think? Is DIYDrones the place to do it? Should we build a new network for it or something?
More feedbacks on this project are more than welcome.
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Comment by Xander on July 30, 2009 at 12:43pm
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I believe Caleb meant that ANYTHING with a computer controlling a rotor is going to crash a bunch at first. At least with a quad those crashes are cheap and easy to fix. Meaning quad is the way to go!
I'm actually quite interested in a tilt-rotor....or some sort of vtol that transitions to winged flight (possibly have the whole quad tilt 90deg instead of the individual motors). I've been rather disappointed with the rcgroups vtol forum. Not a whole lot there. I've been brainstorming on some different ways of doing it. Trick is that you really want a large wing to enable long flight times, but that wing is going to catch the wind when you dont want it to during vertical flight.
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Comment by Gian Carlo M. on July 30, 2009 at 12:43pm
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Just found this vid on Youtube:
I am continuing this discussion at: http://diydrones.com/forum/topics/tilt-rotor-quadcopter-for
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Comment by Miguel COLLADOS on July 30, 2009 at 1:21pm
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Hi everybody,
Based on my personal experience (I own an X-UFO and a few model helicopters e.g. Trex 450V2) I can tell you that if you want speed and battery life you need a helicopter. If you want just hover take some pictures, see the neigbourhood from above and move at lower speeds, then you'd better go for the Quad. If you want to do it just for fun, then the X configuration is a great challenge, but do not expect more battery time than with a helicopeter. And it will be a big big challenge, you can ask Mr. Moller! http://www.moller.com/skycar.htm But if you decide to go ahead I am interested, I think I could help with the electronics and flying experience. (I already have an Easiglider with OSD and FPV working)
The helicopter is more efficient (up to 15-20 minutes of flight) because the rotor blades are actually wings moving at high speed, so you just need power to keep them turning. In a Quad, you use propellers purelly fighting gravity...
Best,
Miguel
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Comment by Gian Carlo M. on July 30, 2009 at 1:54pm
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Hi Miguel! Welcome aboard then! :)
I believe we could get more battery life not in "quad-mode", but in airplane mode. Using the wings I believe we can get enough lift to fly with 20-30% of the power needed to hover in quad-mode. Does it make any sense?
We could have the same wing surface as an airplane, but with he added weight of 3 extra engines... adding all that maybe we can achieve 80% of the battery life (just guessing numbers) in "airplane mode", using "quad mode" for take-off, cruise altitude and landing.
We could definitely have someone on board that knows a lot about programming, I think it's going to be a huge part of the project.
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Comment by Xander on July 30, 2009 at 2:43pm
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Miquel, what you say about efficiency makes sense, but it doesnt seem to work that way in practice. Maybe it's the extra weight inherent in a heli, maybe it's mechanical losses, but if you look here you'll see that a quad is capable of close to 30 min of flight. And that's probably not even fully optimized.
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